Threatening mail by Yellowtab
Update 2005-08-20, 14:53:
The comments in the german BeOS user group website forums that are linked in the update below have been deleted by Ralf Schülke, an other admin of that website. They have NOT been deleted by Bernd Korz. Ralf Schülke said in chat that he did this in order to keep the website clean, and due to (but not on behalf of) the person who posted those comments. Quote: "das die debug solange wie ich da was entscheiden kann, auch sauber bleibt" and "er macht nur Ärger".
Update 2005-08-20, 14:16:
Nothing related to AVM, ISDN, DVB-T or SATA development that is described in this blog is covered by a NDA signed with Yellowtab. In his email, Bernd Korz refers to another incidence that is unrelated to this blog, when threatening to sue me after he got angry about the AVM article I wrote.
Bernd Korz is admin of the german BeOS user group website, and of cause the Yellowtab.com and Yellowtab.de websites. Multiple comments posted there, which tried to link to this blog, have been deleted. Some of them are mirrored here:
My original posting in the Yellowtab.de forum AVM thread (HTML)
One posting in the Beusergroup.de forum (image)
A new thread in the Beusergroup.de forum (image)
Original article 2005-08-19, 20:28:
After I read the third comment to the previous blog posting yesterday morning, I was fairly sure that it had been posted by Bernd Korz, the one mentioned in the article. The comment is the one that starts with "One of that projects you started and never finished. Well you are such a person." The phrases used, typical spelling mistakes, background knowledge that shows through, omission of facts, date and time of posting, etc. everything seemed to indicate that it was written by him. Judging other comments and responses, many people assume the same. I wasn't sure if it was really him, because I thought that he wouldn't be so mad at me to do such a nutty thing like posting the comment.
I didn't contact him, and I didn't ask. But I noticed that the single comment as pointer to the blog article, that I had left in the original thread at Yellowtab forum, had been deleted at about the same time.
Well, yesterday evening I recieved an outrageous email from Yellowtab, written by their CEO/CVO Bernd Korz. Now I'm even more sad about Yellowtab's behaviour. Threatening me in such a perfidious way, while at the same time selling Zeta, which contains drivers that I wrote for BeOS and were available free of charge.
At the beginning of the mail, he denies to have written the comment in my blog. Then he acknowledges to have deleted my comment in the Yellowtab Forum. He goes on by explaining that he had to pay for the hardware that AVM provided. After that, he says that he has no interest in what I do, write or post, and that he doesn't want to deal with me anymore, pretending to speak for all Yellowtab developers.
Now the ugly part starts. Using an alleged NDA (non disclosure agreement) breach, he promises to undertake everything that is possible to sue me. He claimes that even this mail is protected by the NDA that I signed with Yellowtab, but I'm certain that it doesn't apply here. At the end, he says that a copy of that mail was sent to their lawyer, who is now checking legal measures against me.
I don't know why he payed for the AVM hardware, but as far as I remember, it was provided by AVM as a loan. I still keep the two cards that I got in save custody. When I last inquired at Yellowtab about two years ago how I could return it, I was told that there was no need to. Still, paying for hardware is no reason to not do business, or to act crazy like this.
I understand that details like this don't look bright for Yellowtab. But I spent much time with development of BeOS software and drivers, and I really don't like to be threatened like this after all what I did. Yellowtab is acting very very treacherous. If you want to deal with them, keep their mail in mind.
I think I provided much benefit for Yellowtab during the last years, by developing software, and also by testing and reporting bugs. Some got fixed, most didn't. I was also busy getting DVB-T to work on Zeta, but I'll stop that now, and make sure that it will run on BeOS R5 and Haiku, but not on Zeta.
There is only one secure way to prevent an email from beeing published: don't write it. The complete and unaltered mail is reproduced below.
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:06:02 +0200
Message-Id: <20050818190602.3878.3@mulsum.yellowtab.home>
From: Bernd Korz <bernd.korz@yellowtab.com>
Subject: Posting
To: marcusoverhagen@arcor.de
Cc: sonja.bauer@yellowtab.com
Hallo Marcus,
auch wenn es den Anschein hat was das Posting auf deinem Blog angeht so ist es nicht von mir. Was ich getan habe ist Dich auf dem yT.com Forum zu sperren und ich habe auch Deinen Beitrag dort gelöscht.
Ich weiss nicht was ich oder yT Dir getan hat aber ich denke wir waren immer Hilfreich. Falls Du es nicht weisst: ICH habe damals die gesamte Hardware an AVM bezahlen müssen. 1500 Euro und ich habe zu der Zeit GAR KEIN GELD gehabt. Ich habe es monatlich abbezhalt.
Warum auch immer Du so bist wie Du bist, Du wirst Deine Gründe haben. Mich interessiert es nicht wirklich. Was auch immer Du postest oder machst oder nicht machst, auch das interessiert mich nicht.
Ich will Dir nur sagen das ich mit Dir nichts mehr zu tun haben möchte, und hier spreche ich auch im Namen ALLER Entickler von yT. Du hast schon als Betatester Deinen NDA gebrochen weil Du so vergrellt bist und nun wetterst Du schon wieder, das ist sehr sehr schade denn ich denke wir haben uns wirklich bemüht Dir zu helfen.
Ich lasse gerade rechtlich prüfen in wie weit wir gegen Dich vorgehen können. Auch deshalb weil Du ja den NDA gebrochen hast. SOLLTE yT die Möglichkeit haben Dich zu verklagen so kann ich Dir versichern das ich ALLES daran setzen werde das es passieren wird. Denn Du spielst ein sehr unfaires Spiel und ich werde dem nun rechtlich entgegenwirken.
Diese email ist unter NDA und ich hoffe das Du nicht schon wieder den Fehler machst und es veröffentlichst. Ich habe diese email als CC an unseren Juristen geschickt der gerade rechtliche Schritte gegen Dich prüft.
Bernd Thorsten Korz
CVO/CEO yellowTAB GmbH
posted by Marcus Overhagen @ 20:28
51 comments
51 Comments:
Why oh why doesn't that mail surprise me? But at least he doesn't insult you and your family here. Does anyone still remember what happend on #beos.de on the 4th of july? I still wait for the proof or the defamation that happend there. But all I got was an idle threat with an NDA I've never signed! It's quite interesting that the same person that is dealing with personal mails and logfiles insists on an email not beeing published.
Marcus, you have my deepest respect for beeing the first of us to publish the truth.
Good luck with this. Let's hope it stays with threatening. If not, you should know that there are a lot of people profiting from your work (and knowledge) and more than willing to lend a helping hand finding and financing good legal aid.
Fuck yT !
Every software is protected by law againts being disassembled (as we can read in MS EULA for example). Zeta was created by disassembling and altering files to which intellectual property now belongs to Palm. Palm should sue Yt.
It could be that Palm asked Yellowtab for signing a NDA and Yellowtab obviously signed it. So Palm will not ever sue Yt.
I think it was the right to publish this mail. So you can get backing from the comunity...
jakub, first of all you should be able to proof this. Otherwise, your just spreading the same FUD others already do. That helps nobody. And secondly, what you say about disassembling is not true for germany, but not relevant in this discussion anyways.
This is why I didn't want to sign an NDA with Yellowtab in the first place. In fact if this matter won't work out well I will consider halting any development on Firefox/Mozilla that benefits Mozilla on Zeta. I recognize this all to well from the arguments I've had with them, which Bernd never apologized for. (Calling me bad names and such.) I thought those days where over from YT's part.
Hope this ends well.
Lolololol...
It's always the same story. When it smells money, lawyers get in, companies start to sue, etc, etc, etc... But what I find most funny here is the following: Zeta won't go *ANYWHERE*. There's no way they can compete with other commercial OSs (like Windows and MacOSX), not to mention Linux and all other free *nixes out there. I give you guys @ haiku 100% my support for your knowledge, support, etc, etc, etc... But this is a project that to live, it must stay open! Guys @ yT are living a dream that will vanish sooner than they think (most probably, it's already vanishing, and hence all this story).
Cheers mate!
Since yT sells Zeta worldwide, telling that German law allows disassembling is not right. Have you seen in Germany people selling OSx86? They would be destroyed by Apple in 24h. PalmSource doesn't care too much.
Just shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. Selling OSx86 would be a copyright infingement in germany, too. But resourcing it to be able to develop for it if documentation is not available is explicitely allowed in germany and as long as this is done in germany, it's perfectly legal. You're just mixing up resourcing with unlicenced redistribution.
Just shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. Selling OSx86 would be a copyright infingement in germany, too. But resourcing it to be able to develop for it if documentation is not available is explicitely allowed in germany and as long as this is done in germany, it's perfectly legal. You're just mixing up resourcing with unlicenced redistribution.
Hi Marcus,
I just fell over your Blog by accident and read through this and the ISDN information.
I'm a bit sad that, especially in this so called "community", people get mad at each other that easyly.
I do understand that you feel bad when your work, that was almost finished, is thrown into garbage.
So I do understand that you wrote something on that topic in your blog. It was an interesting read.
Nevertheless, in paragraph 10 you threw a very bad light on yellowTAB and especially Mr. Korz.
The Anonymous Comment could fit to Mr Korz. Who ever wrote it, it is as bad as your attack and shouldn't have been posted. What that "Anonymous" wrote is really bad and very personal. And must not be written on a public blog.
Now things are brought to the next step and it's just so stupid.
The letter with a threat on legal steps, throwing you out the yellowTAB forum on the one side, the reply on your blog which even points heavyer to Mr. Korz and throws an even worse light on him and yellowTAB on the other side... .
Are you really that sure, that you and Mr. Korz didn't see the same thing from different views and you're both right on what happened?
I can't see anything in the statments you and Mr. Korz put on the net, that stands in conflict with anything the other side said (if you take the personal attacks from both sides out the pool).
As I read it, yellowTAB got the ISDN cards from AVM. They thought for free. They gave you two of them, because you were writing a driver for the Hardware. They told you, you could keep them. (Maybe they didn't know they had to pay that much for them at that time?). Than strange things happened between yellowTAB / Mr. Korz and AVM. Maybe Mr Korz misunderstood something they said and didn't know the price for the support. Maybe AVM didn't act properly. Who knows. The result was that they don't speak with each other anymore.
I can't judge on that, because I don't have facts.
You couldn't finish the driver because of the problems Be had. The project was dead for a long time. Now yellowTAB could finish them, because they have what you needed, but they don't want to support AVM Hardware. That makes your work useless. What sure makes you feel bad after putting lots of work in it, as you wrote in your blog.
That does fit together for me. I probably forgot something, but it is late. I think you get the point.
Maybe the "community" is too small so lots of people know each other. I noticed arguments like this can come up here very easy and turn personal about as fast.
That is really too bad.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if you would have written your Topic on the ISDN problem a bit more diplomatic, there would be no problem.
You actually didn't leave Mr Korz any room to escape but put the "you are bad spotlight" on him. Maybe you didn't mean to. In that case maybe you should do the first step and say sorry.
And maybe Mr Korz should have a second view on the mail he wrote. Sometimes it's good to sleep a night or ten before writing something like that.
Just a few thoughts on the topic from another Anonymous.
I hope you and Mr. Korz will calm down soon and this law stuff will disapear as fast as it came.
I just think this eats too much energy and brings up sensless posts like babajagas up there (who would want to fuck a whole company, that is pretty stupid and has nothing to do with the topic [well germany needs more kids to pay me when I'm retired]).
Have a great day Marcus!
What do you mean by 'resourcing'? Be Inc. BeOS kernel dated 15 November 2001 was modified to remove original Be Inc. gif boot image and to change branding from Be Inc. BeOS to yellowTab Zeta. Is it perfectly legal in the world?
i've never really understood the behaviour of yellowTab. One of the best things from BeOS and Be Inc. times was the relationship between users and developers: the enthusiasm of the team of Be Inc. was spread around also the users and 3rd party developers and it was one of the strong points of BeOS.
I've started around 2001 to look closer at this world and i've felt already "at home": it was not only the architecture and software quality but "something more".
Sometimes i read the old BeNews and Be.com archives and i can still feel the enthusiasm of people, the true and simple collaboration of one group bring together.
Probably it was not all so perfect but it was more enjoinable, there were rumors, new programs, new tecnologies (new driver support or hw opengl for example), good articles about the OS and programming, funny things. All (or many of it) "at the hand of the people".
I hope that in the future the things will go more similar to that "gold age" but as for now i can see good things most only from the Haiku team (talking about the human side of things). In the Zeta side i see too many secrecies, NDAs, "wait and you'll see". Where is the "openess" of Be Inc.? Things like talking about hw Opengl drivers even before releasing, or commercial games converted from Windows, listening to the users desires for the next version of the OS, the possibility to e-mail the company developers.
I've started to think that they are focusing of the german users so they have more communication with their people than the other ones, that they are a small company, etc. I wait patiently without saying anything, sadly.
Today i was in the office where i work as programmer and i've bring my friend to the yellowtab website because he was interested by my talking about BeOS and derivates. He was searching for screenshots and as i've told him there're some outside the site he has laught saying "oh man, how can i buy a thing without, at least, seen the aspect of it?"...Wasnt he right?
They are small things that make the people think that things are not changing but again in letargy.
Now i read about sueing from yellowTab and i'm asking myself for what reason. for having said something about driver development of a thing that is largely supported on Windows (and other systems i think)? Not about a new technlogy, or an exclusive deal that-you-cant-talk-of. It's verrrry bad. I understand protectiveness but not at these stages.
Instead I really enjoy reading about people who are working on something because i can understand why "this is not yet done" or "we can't continue on that driver development because..". Without reading these stories i feel like an user that only purchase a product and not much more. I'd like instead read about new things and also decide my new hardware buyings also in relation of it.
I thank you Marcus for having developed new drivers and i feel sorry to have not the possibilities to help working on it. I hope to learn something soon to make some drivers for simple things :)
Let's work together and politely! It's already difficult build something from the BeOS ashes, if you break the community is even worse. It's better to focus on killing bugs and resolving problems and TALK TRANSPARENTLY about issues more than talking behind laywers and bad words.
Bernd will end up like SCO...
There is something like iTunes Music Store. Why people from Czech Republic cannot buy music in ITMS United Kingdom? Because ITMS law regulations in UK may not comply with law regulations in Czech Repulic, and owner of the rights to some music may sue Apple for violations. The same way yT store for Zeta should only be available for people in Germany, where strange things are allowed, while selling Zeta worldwide is according to US law illegal.
Marcus, you have my full support and attention.
If you need any help footing legal bills, affording a lawyer, etc. setup a fund. I'll be -happy- to donate.
This is NOT the first time they've screwed developers, burnt bridges, and pissed with the community. This is the first time someone has had the balls to stand up for what's right.
Others in the community convinced me to stay silent about other wrongdoings, despite what my conscience tells me.
Please, if you do end up needing help, or beer, or both -- let us know where we can send it. You're not alone, Haiku / BeOS is still a good place to be, don't let them win and drive you off.
Bernd Korz is an idiot. Period. He is a selfish person who saught fortune on the shoulders of ex-be inc. findings. Now he has the NERVE to threaten Haiku with such a despicable e-mail. Bernd, let me tell you this: I will personally send a pirated copy of zeta to anyone who e-mails me, as long as I know that this action damages your profit.
Meee Meee :D Send me one :D
Serious now, Marcus, you have my full support.
Thanks for letting us know about this.
I'm sorry you've been chewed up like this. I really had hoped we had moved on past this point....
@peter stegemann, whilst there is no love loss between us, I extend the same to you, I'm sorry this has happened.
Regards,
the_leander
Why do we only learn the hard way?
There is a high probability of misunderstanding and is based on communication with three parties.
The only way to solve this is to find out what has happened exactly and to talk about it.
Then apologies are needed, maybe its not going to be bidirectional, but do give them!
Well, wel... yT show their teeth.
I have to say, after reading that email from the "CEO" (a term that's generally not in use in Germany), I have lost the rest of that little bit of respect I had for yT and Zeta. I always felt yT and especially Bernd were acting like a big multinational company without actually being one. NDAs? For what???? It really really really would have been nice if the BeOS could have died with some dignity. And then there was yT... And Zeta, which really doesn't seem all that different from BeOS Dano except for that ugly ugly non-BeOS preferences app and the SVG in the tracker.... Uh yeah, and the thousands of pograms that were mostly freeware in the BeOS age that they are now selling. And now this....
It's really sad, really.
You and Haiku should change the license for your work to ensure that I cannot be included in any Yellowtab product. This seems to be the only way to show Yellowtab how lousy they really are.
Marcus, you are a good programmer, and nobody claims otherwise. I read Bernd's email, and he seems angry because you linked him to the blog post that was very insulting to you. So now you insulted him without proof (much like I did with a post I was convinced was from peter stegemann - who can be very anoying at times).
As for the rest, work it out with Bernd if you wish, or not. The community would respect either decision.
But please don't forget one thing. yelloTab is (even if you think it is unwilling) helping keep BeOS alive until Haiku is ready. The same was true with the PE based distroes (Peter, don't comment, I know your views :-) ).
I lost all of my renewed respect to yT...It's sad. I heard some rumours about yT's behaviour, but I didn't think that it was real. Marcus, You have our support.
I'm now writing license, which should enlarge your happiness. License which I will always use, and I hope some of Haiku devs too.
And remember...I still have contact with BabaJaga and zeta-looks.org domain :>
I've tried to post links to this story into the web-forum of DeBUG, the German BeOS Usergroup, www.beusergroup.de .
My posting was deleted shortly after I posted it, an even my user account, which I've been using for years now, was deleted. I registered again and wrote a new posting - now it has been deleted again, and my new account also.
Here are the deleted postings:
http://www.micronuke.net/debug/debug_post1.png
http://www.micronuke.net/debug/debug_post2.png
The DeBUG-website is probably the biggest and most-visited BeOS/Zeta-related website for German-speaking people and someone is eagerly trying to keep them from knowing about this Blog and what's written here. Wonder why...
By the way, Bernd Korz is one of the administrators of the DeBUG-website.
I work at an IT&C magazine. I'll write an article about all this and WILL make sure that every of my readers will know what kind of a person Bernd Korz really is. Bernd, if you are reading this (i bet you will), know that I was about to review Zeta for my printed mag. I'll review Haiku instead as a better alternative to Zeta. Cheers.
i think it is the same happened to Intuiware. No more Squeezer in Zeta 1.0? were all the intuiware applications are?
Those comments made by Ralf Schülke are ridiculous. I just posted the links, no flame at all.
But actually it's not new that everything that even has the slightest tendency of being against Zeta or Yellowtab, must be evil and deleted.
In fact I received an eMail today from another DeBUG-member who was noticed that his account will be deleted, if he continues to write negative about Yellowtab and/or Zeta.
Great "user group".
Great so called "community".
It's quite sad what happened to the DeBUG in the last months. This is definitely not the DeBUG I've co-founded anymore. But no matter what we read these days about Bernd Korz, I don't believe that he is abusing the DeBUG for his purposes. While it is pretty much clear that the censorship on the offical yellowTab-forums is in his responsibilities, the ongoing censorship on the DeBUG is the work of Ralf Schuelke. He is a fundamental believer in yellowTab and Zeta and would do everything to keep the DeBUG "clear" of Zeta criticism. This is a good example how your greatest fan can be your greatest enemy; here Ralf is playing that role for Bernd.
Stupid fanatism.
This "stargater" guy is a good example for a stupid fanatic. He is too dumb to realize that he is beeing used by the owner of the DebUG to do the "dirty job".
As usual, the true evil sits in the background and tries to redirect the responsibility to another person. Don't be fooled by this lier that fooled us so many times before.
Me and some other guys know that there is still another severe problem in regard to someone who is always mentioned here: It is about stupid acts of physical violence. Recently I talked to someone who has been hospitalized after such an incident and I still try to convince him that he should make it public. Hopefully I'll succeed in doing so.
The *user account* of one long-time member of the DeBUG was deleted after he posted a link to this blog to inform the people about what is going on (see Marcus' update from today (050820)). My posting on www.beusergroup.de regarding the same topic was deleted, too. I just posted a link to this blog and wrote down my opinion on deleting user accounts.
Let's see how much longer I remain a member of the DeBUG...
Finn Bastiansen
Interesting comment:
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=11613&comment_id=20824
http://www.beusergroup.de/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=forum&board=deutschebeusergroup&op=display&num=1858
(in german)
May be Korz is hiding Billy Gates :) fuck YT! fuck Microsoft! fuck politics!
Oh good lord, if you would all take a minute and get off the "the world is against me" bandwagon, you might catch on that people who post information that they have *voluntarily* signed an NDA not to post/share, really are not trustworthy. Think about it, no one made him sign it, no one forced him to work with YT in the first place and certainly, no one should be employing him in any capacity if he cannot be bothered to honor his commitments. A commitment *he made* by signing an NDA in the first place. They are vague for a reason...so they can be interpreted in a way that is beneficial to the company who wrote it. Not really a shocking bit of info there. And it really shouldn't be a surprise to you developers who apparently want to live off the air, that a company who makes software that they *sell* (paying developers like you a living wage that enables you to eat) would expect people they trust to work with them not to post private information on the web. Um, duh! You don't get to decide what information is covered, the person who asked you to sign the NDA does. If you don't like it, don't sign it. Not a hard concept, eh? Sigh....why don't you just go back to working on your *open source* OS and stop bothering people who are legitimate? You know the OS I mean, the one made a by a company that is now bankrupt and paid for by VC's and other individuals who invested money that was paid to engineers who wrote the code. Sound familiar? Don't kid yourself, you are taking things that someone paid for in the first place...and maybe you should consider the fact that most of you have a *full time* job at a company (your know the term company? yellowtab is one) that isn't giving it's products away. Put that money in the bank don't you? Use it to buy internet access and a spot to post your sad little rantings about a company that cannot be bothered to work with people like you who are too untrustworthy to make it worth their time. Catch on to the point......he signed an NDA, he broke the NDA, he is open to and liable for the damages. Doesn't matter if you like it, it's a fact. And any of you who throw your money (you know, that stuff you need to hire a lawyer) away to defend a man who is a liar and disregards his own and other people's professional respect, deserves the fees they will have to pay. You do it to yourselves people. No wonder “Haiku” is such a huge, smashing success....well done!!
Dear haikuisnotbeos,
maybe you should have invested less time in posting than in reading - in that case you would have noticed, that the threatening mail was NOT caused by a possible NDA-breach, but by the completely legal blog-entry that was posted here.
Bernd Korz is just using a way earlier incident that was already setteled as a weapon to fight a public correction to a public slander against on of his past business contacts.
So, the first to be unprofessional in doing his business was Bernd Korz by publicly slandering a business partner. The first in breaking a commitment was Bernd Korz by reopening a conflict that was already setteled by using it as a weapon of revenge.
If you still want to claim Marcus is in this because he broke an NDA, you should name that breach so we know what you're talking about.
HaikuisnotBeOS
Hey, I have several NDAs signed, and it is a factor of both parties to get expectations down. Given the way yT has acted in the past, this type of action does not surprise me.
Your comment about open-source is unfounded. Whether an OS, app, or any-code is opensource has nothing to do with NDAs. I have NDAs signed for apps that will be opensourced, and it is in the expectations of both me and the IP owner that this will happen.
So, seeings as it seems you have no NDAs nor have read one, you can't go telling who is right or wrong. We have very few pieces of this story, but given the record of each side, Marcus is more in the right than yT.
Overall, logically, Marcus has nothing to lose over a post. Personal blogs and sites are not covered by NDA. Content of the IP owner is, and there is no IP posted. yT doesn't have much to lose, as they have no PR to begin with. How they treat folks on the inside being made public, which is usually not covered by NDAs, esp for individual (contracted) developers, can hurt yT. They need to take better care of folks.
NDA's are not a general gag order.
They can be quite specific and they can be quite general.
I will give marcus the benefit of the doubt about knowing what any NDA's he has signed cover.
The NDA's that I have signed prevent me from disclosing source code and API's. They do NOT prevent me from talking about the company, it's products or it's employees.
Marcus, I've enjoyed the use of several of your drivers for a couple years now. Thank you for your hard work and dedication to the community. Your software contributions have been outstanding, and freely given for all to use.
I'm saddened to learn that you are now being menaced by this parasitic profiteer. Like many others, I have *always* had a bad feeling about Mr. Korz and his company; their track record is poor, and in that they are quite consistent.
I have joined with others in calling for cash donations to the Haiku project in lieu of purchasing Zeta from yT. See, for instance, my post at OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?
news_id=11613&comment_id=22006
Best wishes, and many thanks,
Czeslaw Czapla
I just want to say something about Bernd Korz.
He always helped us verry much.
Whe got every support we needed.
We just asked him and he always answered our factual questions verry kindly.
Supportet us with software and contacts to the zeta-developers.
And was always verry open to any suggestions we had.
He really tried (and mostly with success) to solve the problems we had with zeta.
The cooperation with Yellowtab and Bernd was always really great, and i can´t really understand all things that seem to happen here - yellowtab brought BeOS back to life.
Hello Marcus,
It is said to read how they (i.e. yT) are treating you .. they are quite stupid for 1) argueing with you, you having been a great developer to them .. in the past .. 2) threatening with empty shells .. NDA's you never signed .. it doesnt really make a good impression to the general public .. and to the other developers .. it will only hurt them .. it makes them rather look rediculous 3) fighting against the stream ... as a company you have to accept mistakes .. or misfortunes .. or the way things work in business .. i mean .. not gettings drivers to work with the AVM Fritz cards isnt exactly smart policy i think ..
4) .. well i give it a rest for now .. might be able to come up with lots of others ...
I wish you a warm welcome from the haiku dev community ... Marcus .. and i wish you well .. all the best .. i hope to see .. haiku developing well and even faster now .. with the help of a great developer like yourself and other great developers out there ..
As for Bernd's rude words .. my father always says .. shit you have to swallow .. dont pay it any attention ..
Well i am going to have some breakfast now ..
Greetings for now,
Jeez. mr. Haikuisnotbeos - you sent me exactly the same text you posted above as a reply to one of my e-mails. I know copy-paste is in fashion nowadays, but I expected at least your own thoughts on this issue.
One of the e-mails you sent me was a reply to an e-mail I sent to Bernd Korz. Now, now Bernd. Do you need to hide under a nickname to state your oppinion?
wow. So haikuisnotbeos is Bernd. Nice to know how he feels. Also nice to knwo the company doesn't have time for PR but has time for FUD. Great. Sorry I ever paid the $10 Euros to get R1. Even that $10 wasn't worth it. :-(
Overall, the peopl I feel sorry for the most are the devs who tried to help them. And let's not forget the devs who are going Zeta-only like Xentronix. Poor saps...
Anonymous
Why ary YOU hiding behind Anonymous???
Sorry but i dont belive this e-mail-recived from Bernd stuff until you showed who you are!!!!!!!!
(previously haikuisnotbeos)
No, I am not Bernd Korz. He is not a coward and would never hide behind a pseudonym as I do.
Sorry to disappoint, but not only have I read the NDA in question, I have signed it. It is vague. Yt could tell you anything about the company and if you cannot prove that the company publicly released the info somewhere, and you talk about it in public, you can be fined/prosecuted. The language is not obscure, nor is it overly legal-speak-ish. No matter your *opinion* about NDA's, capitalism, open source software or fair business practice, this case has some facts that are not based on those opinions. The *fact* is that an NDA was signed and broken. Bernd/yellowtab/the law doesn't/don't have to prove anything more than that it was violated. They don't have to convince any of you that it is fair. Marcus was free to sign or not sign. He signed. He broke the contract. As far as I am concerned, after breaking his word, I would take anything he says with a grain of salt. No doubt future/current employers will consider his stance on NDA's before giving him insider information.
In hindsight, I am wishing I had never posted an opinion at all. It seems from what I have read here and in other forums, that most of you are a bunch of hypocritical bullys. You only believe in open source if the people who use your code conform to your beliefs. That wouldn't actually be “open” source, now would it? More like “restricted”source. If you wanted it to be truly “open”, then it wouldn't matter how people used it and whether or not you agree with their business practices/company philosophy/ability to form sentences in a language that is not their native one. That's the hypocritical part. The bully part is your obscene need to blame *everything* you don't like about ZETA on Bernd Korz personally. Some of you don't just limit yourself to threatening the yt business reputation. You actually send him personal mails threatening bodily harm to him and his family (his family?!? oh come on!) Please “anonymous - 29 August, 2005 15:05 ”, you think it is an insult to me that you mock my not bothering to write a personally worded email to your childish “I am going to ruin your company” email? It didn't occur to you when you wrote it that more than just Bernd Korz might see it? How naive are you anyway?
In summation, let me be clear. This is not personal. Yt is a company. When you break our NDA's, or make nasty comments about our business practices you are speaking to *every single person who works and contributes to this product*. We all care about it and give hours and days of our lives working towards it's success. And we will succeed. Every time we make a sale, develop a new and better way to solve a technical problem or even just get the message out - that there are easy to use, alternative operating systems available to the average user, we *are* succeeding. Would you really rather get into a he said/he said argument about which most of you actually know very little and miss out on all the positive things that make an engineering driven company a great thing to be involved in?
What comes around goes around people. Maybe you should all find a fight worth fighting and stop trying to tear down a person who has made success out of failure. Or shall we review the fortunes of Be all over again?
Perhaps a new name is called for.....haikucanhavebeos
Der haikuisnotwhatever,
we still wait for you to name the NDA-breach you're talking about. Adding more useless text doesn't help a bit.
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